Interview with Eddie Kramer

Eddie Kramer

Recently, I had the great privilege to speak with famed studio engineer Eddie Kramer, and talk about his life and his career in music. No topics were off limits and our conversation spanned his work with Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix, The Woodstock Music and Arts Festival, Kiss, Peter Frampton, his days working the booths in London during the British Invasion, and everything in between. You name it, and Eddie Kramer has done it.

FZ: You began your career as a music engineer in 1962 at only 20 years old, how did that come about and how did you get your foot inside the door and begin your profession as an engineer?

EK: Essentially, I came to England in 1960 and then within a few years I figured out exactly what I wanted to do which was to be an engineer. It didn’t take me too long. I started music from the age of four. I was actually going to be a concert pianist growing up in South Africa. I got into jazz and rock when I was a teenager, which sort of changed my direction. So when I got to England I was on the search trying to figure out what it was, whether it was something to do with music or something to do with electronics, which I loved. I was never good at the technical side of the electronics thing, but I figured if there was a way to combine music and electronics… then a bell went off in my head, and I thought “ah, well, engineering, that will do”. So I pursued many of the studios in London, wrote letters off, and got a job as an assistant, and that’s how it all started.

FZ: You worked in London around the time of the British Invasion, what can you recall about that time, and some of the acts you worked with?

EK: It was a fantastic time, it was crazy, and it was wonderful. It was a very inventive musical time because things were being discovered everyday, with the Beatles and the Stones. For me it was wonderful, because I got to work with some of the great artists when they were first starting out, The Kinks, and the Searchers and all of that.

FZ: At that time there were a number of session men around London, Big Jim Sullivan, John Paul Jones, Jimmy Page, do you have any recollections of what they were like in that era, as studio musicians?

EK: You know a lot of the sessions I was on, fortunately, featured some incredibly cool, young musicians, upstart musicians if you will, Jimmy Page being one of them. I was actually on The Kinks session with Shel Talmy who was the producer at Pye in 1963 while they recorded their early hits. “All Day and All of the Night” and all of that stuff, it was fantastic. That was recorded three-track, if you can imagine. I know Page came in and did a solo or two. I do remember him actually coming in, but I don’t think he’d remember me being there. I was just an assistant in those days.

Certainly drummers like Ronnie Verrell, absolutely one of the great rock drummers and there are a whole list of them. In fact this went all the way on through ’64, ’65, ’66, and ’67 when I was at Pye, and from there I had my own studio. I wasn’t using session musicians then, but once I got a job at Olympic in 1966, from 1966 to ’67 and part of ’68, there was a lot of session work going on and fortunately I had a camera and I used to take pictures of all these great drummers and bass players, including a bass player named John Baldwin who later became known as John Paul Jones. He and I became quite good friends and used to hang out at his flat in Hampstead, he and his wife. They were very good friends of mine, very, very good to me.

I heard the first Zeppelin album, in fact the story is that Jonesey called me up, this was in early 1968, because I came to America in April 1968. Somewhere around January or February of ’68, he called me up and I went to his flat, and he said “I got something to play you” and he put on what was the first Zeppelin album. It blew me away, I said, “My God, it’s incredibly heavy, what’s the name of the band?’ and he said “Led Zeppelin” and I said, “My God, that is the stupidest name I’ve ever heard, why would you want to call them that?” [laughs] Boy was I ever proven wrong!

It was a great time, because I got to work with all these musicians including Big Jim Sullivan, who was always in sessions. He was like go-to mind. You really couldn’t do a rock session without something like a Big Jim Sullivan. Then of course if you wanted the really edgy, sort of superstar type, up-and-coming guy, you’d get Jimmy Page. In fact I recorded Jimmy at Olympic on a Donovan singled called “Hurdy Gurdy Man”. In fact I have a photograph of Jimmy at Olympic, in the control room at that time, and also I have lovely photographs of John Paul Jones.

You know he [Jones] would come in and plug in the bass, usually an Ampeg B-15, and he would have his charts and he would arrange, he was a great arranger. So he would plug in the bass and stand at the conductor’s rostrum and conduct the whole 30, 40, 50, 60-piece orchestra with his bass in his hand. He was just quite amazing.

They were very well respected, well rounded musicians, so when Zeppelin got themselves together, without question he’s [Jones] like the foundation. Without his deep musical knowledge I don’t think the band would have sounded as they did. I think this is true of every member of Zeppelin, because each one of those guys, they were unique, and they just fit together so perfectly. You could not have asked for a better band. They proved themselves over and over again as being the cutting edge, the heavy-duty rock and roll band. The greatest rock drummer of all time, John Bonham. He was just incredible.

FZ: You began working with Led Zeppelin on their second album, how did that come about?

EK: As I explained, I knew the guys and I don’t think they were 110% happy with the first record and they started cutting tracks in England I think for the second record and then they were on tour and brought all the tapes with them and then they cut tracks in odd places on the road. They were about halfway through the record then they said “we’re coming into New York, do you want to help us finish it up?” and I said “absolutely.” We cut tracks in various studios in New York, Juggy Sound, and oh gosh, I can’t even remember the other ones, but we ended up mixing it and overdubbing it at A&R Studios, and actually mixed the whole record in about two days.

It was really a question of Jimmy calling me up, and saying “Hey, we’re here, would you like to work on the record?” and I said “Of course, naturally.” It was eight-track you know? Good old eight-track, some of the best sounding stuff was done on eight-track.

FZ: What was Jimmy Page like as a Producer?

EK: Brilliant! He always has been. He really knew what he wanted, he was very clear about it and had a great perspective on the overall sound, the direction, the way the thing should be assembled, and put together. He just had a very good grasp of the final product.

Jimmy Page and Eddie Kramer mixing "Led Zeppelin II"

FZ: That record sounds so fresh, even today. What would you attribute that to?

EK: Genius on his part, well, genius on the whole band’s part of course. It is just a timeless piece it was groundbreaking. Certainly the first record was very good, it established them as a force to be reckoned with, and it was a great record, no question. But I think “Led Zeppelin II” for me, apart from the fact that I worked on it, I’m trying to divorce myself from that at all, it’s an amazing sounding record. There were a couple of different engineers that did work on it to cut basic tracks, but I think by the time Jimmy and I were mixing it, it had taken on a life of it’s own.

FZ: You also served, as the mixing engineer on the third album, which I believe took place at Electric Lady Studios, how was that process?

EK: It was interesting, it was a bit more of a challenge because the band was on the road and things were a lot tougher for them at that point, they had so much to prove. But, yeah, that was great. I loved working with the guys; it was always a challenge because Jimmy had a very specific vision in mind. I had to sort of be on my toes to keep fresh and interpret what he was saying and what he was thinking and try to make the thing sound as big and as heavy as possible, but yet it had to have subtlety.

The one thing people don’t realize is how subtle that band is. They were marvelous with their dynamics, which is sadly, sadly missing in today’s music. The whole thing about their stuff was their dynamics were enormous, from a whisper to a scream. It was wonderful.

FZ: In 1971, you took a hiatus with the band, but then came back and worked with them on “Houses of the Holy”

EK: Actually, that’s a different story, because “Houses of the Holy” and “Physical Graffiti” I cut tracks for both those records at one place, Stargroves. I cut about six or seven tracks there, and they were sort of utilized on those two albums.

FZ: What can you recall about that era? It was so different from the band’s earlier work.

EK: The band had always loved the idea of recording in the space that was not a studio, which would give them the ability to put instruments in different rooms. Certainly Stargroves was brilliant as far as that. They used Headley Grange as well as Stargroves. I only worked the Stargroves sessions with The Stones mobile. It was Mick Jagger’s house of course. It sounded wonderful because you could get this amazing variable acoustic in each room with drums in the conservatory, which is where we put Bonham. Then of course Jimmy’s amp could be stuck in a fireplace and stick a microphone down it, all that sort of thing. It was just the ability to be able to change the sound without going anywhere.

FZ: Do you think that spirit of experimentation and going out and trying new things is gone from music today? Why don’t bands do that today?

EK: I think they do. I think a lot of bands are doing that. I think bands like The White Stripes and The Black Keys have taken some of what we did, and sort have taken it to another level. I’m glad that bands are now trying to somewhat of what we used to do, which was just hang out and make great music and don’t think about bloody pro tools and on the grid and all that nonsense.

FZ: In 1973 you recorded the band at Madison Square Garden for the ultimate release of “The Song Remains the Same”. Do you recall that evening? What was it like?

EK: Ah yes! This was toward the end of their tour and Robert’s voice was not exactly perfect, and I think they had to go back in and punch in a couple of phrases here and there. But I thought the performance was bloody good. I think the filming was a bit of a problem for them. They had to go back in and recreate some of the shots that weren’t captured correctly. It was tough, it was a tough film for them to make. Certainly I think the performances are great.

We ended up mixing it at Electric Lady Studios, and then we had to take it to California to do the postproduction for the film. It was very difficult because there were unions involved and I couldn’t touch the board, so it was never mixed quite the way I would have liked it to be. We were going to do it in four-track surround sound, but the film company said “No, we can’t do that. It’s going to cost too much money.” Sure enough, The Who came out with their four-track surround sound film, I think what was it for “Tommy” or something? What was the movie they made?

FZ: “The Kids are Alright”?

EK: Something like that. That was done in surround sound, and it was only later on that it was remixed in 5.1.

Eddie with Jimmy Page Backstage at Madison Square Garden (1973)

FZ: You were at Woodstock, and recorded the festival, you recorded Led Zeppelin for “The Song Remains the Same”, you recorded Kiss “Alive”. What about live recordings do you think is so unique, what are some of the challenges?

EK: You could also add Peter Frampton

FZ: That’s right “Frampton Comes Alive” yes.

EK: I love live recording. For me it was very exciting. You get one shot and that’s it [laughs] or sometimes two depending upon if you are going to do multiple nights then you can cut together the best performances. Same thing with Kiss, you know? This is a challenge. You have a band like Kiss who onstage with the fireworks and the bombs and all that stuff going off, it’s a show, and it’s tough for them to be in tune and in time, so for me that was a challenge. So we ended up afterward cutting the live performances and overdubbing a lot of material to make it work. But hey listen, that record saved Casablanca Records, they were going under and Kiss saved the day. That double album became a huge seller.

FZ: Just to go back a little bit, you were at Woodstock. What was it like being there? What was it like recording those bands? The environment? It was such a dynamic time. Could you just give us a frame of what it was like?

EK: Well, it can be best summed up, this is what I usually say about Woodstock. Woodstock was three days of drugs and hell and you can just take it from there. I mean it was an incredible time, no question. It was, from a historical perspective, when you look back, that particular year, 1969, was such an amazing time in America. The youth of America really thought that they could change everything and they did. I mean for a while there was love and peace and all the rest of it, but of course reality sets in. At the time it was very invigorating the fact that half a million kids could get together at one place and at one time and there would be no violence, basically you have a town assembled for a couple of days, I mean over half a million people! It was just mind-boggling.

I remember being there at six o’clock on the Friday morning having driven from Manhattan at four o’clock in the morning and arriving at six when the sun’s coming up and looking at this enormous space, completely unfinished. I mean they were sort of assembling the stage at ten o’clock, so I thought to myself “My God this is going to be a disaster” but it turned out to be wonderful. It turned out to be one of the greatest moments in recorded history and definitely influenced generations to come. It was the Hippie generation, it was the love generation, it was everything that it was advertised to be.

FZ: Do any performances from those three days speak out to you or that recall really resonating with you?

EK: Of course, I recall everything from that time. It was, the music. Yes I said “Three days of drugs and hell” of course, that’s sort of a slight negative to it, but you can’t deny the music. The music was unbelievable! You know you had The Band, The Grateful Dead, Jimi Hendrix, and The Who. The list of musicians went on and on, Santana. Virtually every one of those bands was incredible. They rose to the occasion because if you go out on stage and there’s half a million people in front of you, that’s kind of awe inspiring you know? If you’re a decent musician you’re going to put on your best show.

Some of the musicians weren’t that happy with their performances, even Crosby, Stills, and Nash, they went in and retweeked some of their vocals and stuff, because they weren’t that happy. Personally, I think that their original performances were absolutely stunning. There wasn’t really a bad performance, and most of them were exulted performances.

FZ: You’ve spoken at length on the record, and even co-wrote a book about Jimi Hendrix.

EK: Yes, “Setting the Record Straight”

FZ: Yes, a fabulous book, I’ve read it a number of times myself. I guess in a brief synopsis what was Jimi like to work with in the studio? Did he have a clear direction in his mind or did you have to guide him or help him? People talk about him speaking in colors when describing things. Was he easy to interpret?

EK: Oh yeah. Jimi and I hit it right off from the beginning in 1967 when I first met him in Olympic. There was a very good close working relationship. He kept himself to himself as a private individual, but working with him in the studio was for me…that’s the pinnacle. It doesn’t really get much better than that.

You know, going back to the Woodstock thing for a brief moment, I mean that’s an incredible performance. There is an object lesson on how to play the guitar. Apart from the wonderful stuff that we all know, “The Star Spangled Banner” its genius, it’s wonderful. I mean he took this rag-tag bundle of guys, except for Mitch and Billy were cool, I mean they were his support factor, but the other guys weren’t all that great. You have to remember when he was performing there at Woodstock, he had to figure out, “Okay, let me just do this on my own here” and quite often he would just tell the band to be quiet [laughs]. He wanted them to be quiet so that he could perform and do his thing and he was incredible.

Going back to the studio stuff, Jimi was…I always draw the parallel between the two Jimmys; Jimmy Page and Jimi Hendrix. Both of whom had the ability to see the finished product in their mind’s eye. They were very adept at coming up with an idea, a musical idea, and a sound in their head, and following true all the way down to the final product to the mix. There was a sound in their head that they knew they wanted.

Working with Hendrix was easy because I got to understand where he was at, whether it was colors he was using, or another kind of description of sound or the direction and he knew when it was right, and I knew when it was right. I mean sometimes it was crazy because we would end up with, in the latter days, in Electric Lady Studios, which we were only in for a few months, where it was all sixteen track, I would end up with multiple, great solo guitar tracks. It would be very difficult to try and figure out which ones were which. So he and I would sit there and I would make composites of the best of what he thought, the best of what I could put together for him. So yeah, it was always a challenge, because working with a genius like that, you really had to think ahead [laughs].

Eddie Kramer with Jimi Hendrix

FZ: Recently you’ve been working re-mastering Jimi Hendrix’s work, you put out the plug-ins for Waves, “The Eddie Kramer Collection, I’d just like to know if there was anything coming down the pipeline, or anything you are working on currently you’d like to share?

EK: Yes, I am working on a set of really cool guitar pedals, “Eddie Kramer Signature Guitar Pedals”

FZ: When will we might be able to see those in stores, and who are they produced by?

EK: Well we found a company that we’re working with, and it will be probably another couple of months. I can’t give you any more information other than that. There will be five pedals, and they are really amazing. Every guitar player I’ve tested them with says, “They’re some of the best pedals, they’ve ever heard.”

FZ: I’m a guitar player myself, and I’m very excited to pick one up and give it a try.

EK: Cool.

FZ: Eddie, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me today.

EK: Thank you very much.

The Waves Signature Eddie Kramer Collection